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Customizing face frames and saving to methods
February 23, 2019
1:16 pm
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

Sorry to get back so late, I’ve been away doing on site training for the last week so haven’t had a lot of time.

It’s possible to create frames of any complexity using the same method as the first frame and door assembly.

ie: just make a framed structure of the inner panels.

In the example you require, make the first frame with the intermediate upright and instead of making a framed door of the first level framed panel make a structure that only has one rail :

frame-with-2-doors-and-drawers-010.jpgImage Enlarger

Once applied you should have this framed structure :

frame-with-2-doors-and-drawers-020.jpgImage Enlarger

Now create the doors and eventually drawer fronts by creating a framed structure to the inner panels :

frame-with-2-doors-and-drawers.jpgImage Enlarger

It’s then easy to change the dimensions of the unit or add intermediary uprights to the first level frame and Polyboard will update all the data accordingly :

frame-with-3-doors-and-drawers.jpgImage Enlarger

frame-with-3-doors-and-drawers-trans.jpgImage Enlarger

Of course this will not allow you to create the inside of the drawers.

In this case, for manufacturing, it might be easier to create the drawer boxes  separately.

Hope this is helpful,

Best regards,

Ness

February 18, 2019
9:04 pm
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Ness

Hope things are OK, just following up on the last post of mine.

Thanks 

Nige

February 13, 2019
8:37 am
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Ness

Thanks for letting me know not ideal but good developers are on it.

My next one is, with a large draw line base with face frame, I can get the center mullion not a problem but how do I get the

rails for the draw boxes?

Do you have a release date yet for 7?

For-Ness-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Thanks 

Nige

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February 12, 2019
6:02 pm
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

To get the styles to sit on the floor make the double back overlap the bottom.

Then edit the structure and make the bottom rail a nil panel.

Then add an intermediary rail and set it up from the bottom:

frame-with-styles-extended.jpgImage Enlarger

This will give you this:

frame-with-styles-extended-020.jpgImage Enlarger

Unfortunately using this method, I can’t think of a way of getting just extending left or right styles.

We should be able to get around this in the next version of Polyboard 7 as it will be possible to create exterior side, top and bottom volumes.

frame-with-one-style-extended_pb7.jpgImage Enlarger

This will also take away the problem of different panel and front frame thicknesses that you invoked.

The developers are working hard to get the first versions of Polyboard 7 ready for release so it shouldn’t be long to go now.

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Ness

February 12, 2019
2:15 pm
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Ness

I have another one I need you help on. Our face frames are 22mm thick and our doors are 28mm thick. This is throwing up a problem with the depth of the units they are out by the 6mm difference in the frames and doors. If I have the panel to the front I have a 6mm gap between the frame and carcass and if I have it to the back the door is proud by the 6mm, this is ok but its still giving me the wrong depth over all

Thanks 

NigeScreenshot-16.pngImage Enlarger

Screenshot-17.pngImage Enlarger

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February 11, 2019
8:13 pm
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Stefan

Thanks for letting me know 

Nige

February 7, 2019
10:01 am
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Stefan

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Hi Nigel, I wanted to let you know Ness is away until the end of the week. He’ll reply as soon as possible, sorry for the delay.

February 6, 2019
10:35 am
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Ness

How’s it all going?

The way you showed me how to add the face frame by using a double back, how can I make just the stiles go to the floor and how can I make just the left or right stile go to the floor?

Thanks 

Nige

January 23, 2019
11:06 am
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

Because the double back is sealing off the inner volume if you need the drawers boxes, you’ll need to change the way you build the cabinet. 

The best way to  do this is to put nil panels around the carcass and then fill the space between the carcass and the nil panels with a double back. This leaves a free volume in the middle where you can insert drawers.

I attach an example cab.

frames-with-drawers.jpgImage Enlarger

frames-with-drawers-2.jpgImage Enlarger

Note that the double backs are priority to the nil divisions and overlapping 8mm to give the correct lengths in the cutting lists

You’ll have to tweak the sizes.

You can use this method to build all the frames but the disadvantage will be when you put shelves they will be short as up against the nil panels. So it could be better to build models with doors the other way.

Note that I’ve just used a panel for the frames so they’ll come into the cutting lists as panel material. If you want them as bars you’ll have to apply the appropriate structures.

Best regards,

Ness

January 23, 2019
9:51 am
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Morning Ness

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the frames. I’m getting to grips with it now. I’ve come over a little issue that I’m hopping you can work your magic and show me how to do it!

If I use the method that you showed me to make the frames, how do I put in a draw or draw stack? I have used the surface split to give me 3 individual fronts then added a assembly to them, this worked but I have no draw boxes?

Thanks 

Nige

January 18, 2019
1:30 pm
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

I’m happy to hear that this is helpful.

Just tell me when you’d like a TeamViewer session to work through the details.

Cheers,

Ness

January 18, 2019
7:47 am
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Thanks Ness

I’ve found this really helpful, will try and get to grips with it over the weekend and get back to you next week. I’ll probably have a number of questions that a TeamViewer session would sort out.

Have a good weekend

Thanks 

Nige 

January 17, 2019
2:44 pm
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

Sorry to get back so late but I’ve been a bit busy these last days.

It seems from the examples that you have posted that you really want just a frame on the front of each box.

This is in fact much easier than setting up a completely framed construction.

You can do this simply by adding a panel to the front of the box and creating a framed structure.

To add the door just select the panel of the first frame and make that a framed construction too.

frame-with-8mm-beading.jpgImage Enlarger

This actually also makes it easy to make the rails penetrate into the styles by 8mm to get the right cutting lengths.

I’ve set up a few models that you can look at.

the ff models are the completely framed structures (these are quite complexe) and the ffb are the face frame with beading models where the rails penetrate into the style by 8mm.

I’ve used a code for the different types l and r for left and right sides -o for flush Outer -i for flush Inner and -c for Centre.

I haven’t had time to set up all the models you need but the ffb models are quite easy to adjust and you can make them up as you go. 

I’ve set these models up for in-built doors but it’s also possible to use applied doors by applying a door and then applying a double back with a framed structure behind it:

frame-with-applied-door.jpgImage Enlarger

The model name is ffb-app.

If necessary we can do a quick TeamViewer session for me to show you how to use and tweak them.

Hope this is helpful,

All the best,

Ness

January 14, 2019
3:46 pm
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Ness said
Hi Nigel,

Can you give me some more detail of how you want to set up your face frames?

I’ll need the section of the styles and rails and how the frames sit on the boxes, ie flush to inside, outside, mid way etc..

Can you also post the model that you have worked on.

I’ll set you up an example model and we can organise a mini-TeamViewer session so I can show you how to use it to build other models.

Cheers,

Ness  

Hi Ness

Hope you can make sense of this.

For the base units the face frames will be 22mm x 40mm.

I would need:

Top rail flush with the outside edge

Bottom rail flush with the inside edge so it is over hanging the bottom of the unit

Left and right stiles I will need to make up a library of cabinets with them in all 3 positions as well as having them in different positions on either sides. In some cases I will need to take the stile to the floor as well, either side or both.

As well as adding in extra rails and mullions 

For the wall units the face frames will be 22mm x 40mm for the stiles and 22mm x 60mm for the rails.

I would need:

Top rail flush with the outside edge

Bottom rail flush with the inside edge so it is over hanging the bottom of the unit

Left and right stiles I will need to make up a library of cabinets but the majority would be flush with the outside edge 

As well as adding in extra rails and mullions

 

I will need another set of face frames for our beaded ones. 

For the base units the face frames will be 22mm x 32mm. This is to allow for an 8mm bead to be routed into the frame. It would really be 22mm x 40mm stock but to trick the program into giving us the right sizes for the rails I have taken the 8mm off for the bead allowing us to mitre off just the bead and then having the right lengths.

I think this would work but not sure, the problem comes when adding a door but if I am able to reduce size of the door by 8mm on all sides this would allow for the 8mm beading. This then leads into another problem if I need the stiles flush with the inside of the cabinet it will be 8mm short!!!!!!!!!

As with the above I would need to make up a library of all the variants for all our different applications for the base and walls

January 10, 2019
6:05 pm
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Ness

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Hi Nigel,

Can you give me some more detail of how you want to set up your face frames?

I’ll need the section of the styles and rails and how the frames sit on the boxes, ie flush to inside, outside, mid way etc..

Can you also post the model that you have worked on.

I’ll set you up an example model and we can organise a mini-TeamViewer session so I can show you how to use it to build other models.

Cheers,

Ness

January 10, 2019
4:54 pm
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Stefan

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Hi Nigel, thanks for posting this query. We’ll get back to you soon. All the best, Stefan

January 10, 2019
4:27 pm
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Nigel Lofthouse

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Hi Ness/Stefan

I’m trying without much success to customize the face frames to suit our needs to move forward. This maybe due to operator error!

This is the process I’ve gone through but still not achieving the results we are after:

NEW CABINET

Method      z/face-frame/60-19

CABINET BOXFUL SUB-METHOD

Duplicated Z-FF/60-19, I have changed the priority’s and rules to match the way we would need it.

Screenshot-7.pngImage Enlarger

    

Apply the method to the whole cabinet

Then I highlight sides, top and bottom and apply

PANEL STRUCTURES

faceframe/60-19 side

faceframe top-bot

Screenshot-8.pngImage Enlarger

 

This is what I get, as you can see I have an issue with the back panel.

From this point I go and change the face frame size to what I need.

I highlight to face frame then go to

PROPERTIES

ASSEMBLY

MATERIAL (change it to 0-bar/ff-030,22,0×40.0)  

Screenshot-9.pngImage Enlarger

 I still have the problem with the back but now the top and bottom are going through the sides.

I then make the bottom rail flush with the bottom of the cabinet.

Highlight the bottom rail

PROPERTIES

ASSEMBLY     3 DOTS

EDIT

ASSEMBLY METHOD

CENTRAL PANEL

ALIGNMENT (back)

Screenshot-10.pngImage Enlarger

The only way I found to make the back work is.

Highlight the back

Screenshot-11.pngImage Enlarger

This makes the back panel fit the unit but now its showing grooves down either side.

The back panel is over-passing bottom of unit and I’m not sure how to make it flush.

To sum up my problems, the top and bottom of the unit are going through the sides, the sides are sowing grooves in them and the back is over-passing the bottom of the unit.

 As you can see I’m struggling, I hope you can assist 

Thanks 

Nige

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