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My "second" stair :)
May 29, 2018
3:56 pm
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf,

Should be no problem as these are the same type of dxf files . Which cam are you using and pp ? What is your cnc type ?

Have a nice build and send us pictures when done 😉

regards

Michel

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May 29, 2018
10:30 am
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vidf

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I have tried to study the file in your last post now and as far as I can see it’s more or less perfect for this mission 🙂

So, just send me the files as soon as you are back.

Tomorrow we going home from holiday and I have my CAM program here in my laptop so I might begin to make G-code files already to night and on the plane tomorrow 🙂
Just thought of one thing…, my CAM is old (from 2005) and have become more and more furious when it came to export/import files in .EPS and .DXF as the rest of the world has developed it’s standards 😛
Last time (in 2015) it turns out ok with the files I got from Ness but now we have changed from SD6 to SD7 so I’m a bit exited/worry about that…
But, I guess one should not take the worries in advance so we give it a go and hope for the best 🙂

Vidf

May 29, 2018
6:25 am
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf,

There is no problem using post of 80mm. In that small place it is maybe even better. I corrected back the stringer of the stair and attached the new version. A wider nose on the first step is not a problem compared to all other steps.

Let me know if you use this final version so that I  can send you the files. It will be only this evening as I have to leave in a few moments.

And keep playing with SD7. It has a lot of potential 😉

regards

Michel

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vidf
May 29, 2018
2:22 am
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First I have to thank you, I’m both impressed and grateful that you used your Sunday to work with my project! I will never forget that. Like I don’t forget that Ness helped me out with my last stair even if he was occupied with some kind of course outside the reach of internet in that period.
And Stefan who has helped me several times when I have had trouble with my membership and other things. You guys at wooddesigner are really amazing 🙂

I read your post and have played around more with SD7 and like it more and more. Now I’m happy that I took the time to redraw it there.

I have tried to study the stair and think me through the production and I think I can use it more or less like you draw it.

Some minor changes that I have made:
Handrail from 50 to 40mm.
Sett penetration on the handrail

And, when I study it in wireframe I saw that the first riser penetrated the post in a way that would have left a very thin amount of material in front of it. But when I changed the nosing of the first step from 50 to 59.5mm I liked it more.
Do you think it will look strange if the first step has 59.5mm nosing and the rest has 50mm?

After that I was happy, almost.
Then I began to think more and more of the posts.
Originally I had meant to use 80mm posts so I could just glue it together of 2*40mm material.
But when I saw it was 90mm posts in your drawing my first thought was that I think I have enough  25mm material lying around so I can make them from 25+40+25mm.
But right before i wrote this post I was unsure of the amount of 25mm anyway… 😛

I tried to change the posts to 80mm and except for the stringboard that got bumpy again it didn’t seem to mess up anything. Only thing was that I had to change the nosing even more (to 63.5mm) to achieve the same effect.

Now I’m a bit unsure so I add both the file with the first minor changes and the file with that + the 80 posts.
If you see a major disadvantage with the 80 version I go for 90 posts.

I think I’m pretty close that I can order the files now 🙂

Vidar

May 27, 2018
11:53 am
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf,

Just to answer your questions

landingstep:

If you do not add a landingstep the total length of the winder will be until the stepnose of the last step. In the stringer parameters you can add a lenght beyond the last step to define the length of that step. But you have to consider that this needs to be deducted from the winder total length. If you add a landingstep ” in the stairwell ” the total length will include the last step completely. In the stair I added a landingstep of 70mm to connect with your floor. About the measure of you winders when you double click on the stairline the length will show in a pop up so that you do not have to count on the grid 😉

Add-a-Landing.jpgImage Enlarger

measures-values.jpgImage Enlarger
measures-with-landing-in-stairwell.jpgImage Enlarger
measures-with-landing-in-stairwell2.jpgImage Enlarger

1 When setting angel is creating a bump in the stair you can play around with the local and distant winding coefficient

winding-coefficient.jpgImage Enlarger

The reason of the bump is that you fixed step 3 so it will not move when you angle the side of the stair and the stringer still needs to overlap the step so it curves to reach his goal. What I have done is made a straight stringer and handrail, played the angle of the stringer and give it the best possible dimensions. It will be easier also to make your banisters. I added a corrected version of the stair

2 On the 2D screen you have all parameters in the properties screen. There you can define the parameters of each part but also the interconnection which you can do in the links parameters. This is for the complete stair. You can select each piece individually and preset other parameters for each part.

penetration-parameters.pngImage Enlarger

This is about the only thing possible yet in sd7. Step shape feature is not yet implemented but will be in the near future. I made a quick video showing what you can do. Off-course you need to play around with the settings and get a feel of it. Double click on the line to activate and double click again to add a point. You can set it with your cursor but to set it on a precise place you can enter manual coordinates as shown in the video

Unable to display content. Adobe Flash is required.

In the 3D you see that the stringer has been shaped a little and the type is showing custom instead of straight or curved. This kind of feature you need to do as a very last step. First all steps and positions needs to be done correctly. After that as a last step you can shape your stringer. Why last step ? Any change that requires a recalculation of the stringer will cancel out the shaping and you will have to redo it. Here is a video showing stringer shaping (first video on the page)

https://wooddesigner.org/forum/stairdesigner/stairdesigner-and-quick-design-libraries-new-feature-updates/

4 This is up to your own choice. Both are possible

5 A balustrade on the same stair is currently not possible. You can draw one as a separate file and put them together in sketchup to see the result. I added an example of balustrade I made. I also added the first post on the stairfile and then draw the balustrade to connect.

6. Yes you can by adding a newel as intermediate post. How do you do that . You add a newel but instead of clicking in the showed newel shapes you point your marker on the stair-line and you see a message pop up . You apply it and removed the original one together with some stringer pieces if needed. Now you can travel on the complete length of the stringer

newel-post-shift.jpgImage Enlarger

newel-post-shif1t-1.jpgImage Enlarger
newel-travel.pngImage Enlarger

Regards

Michel

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vidf
May 26, 2018
11:44 pm
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Some more pictures:

This is the type of banister he want:
Banister-wishes.pngImage Enlarger


But that I will make in my CAM as shown an example of in post number 3.

More 3D pic of the new stair from SD7:

4.4-3D-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger

4.4-2-3D-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger
4.4-3D-3-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger
4.4-3D-4-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger

B.R
Vidf

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May 26, 2018
11:24 pm
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Hello Michel
Sorry for the late reply, it has become much less time to work on the laptop than I predict so far on the holiday. Just a few minutes now and then.

I have regretted it several times but I ended up trying to redraw the whole stair in SD7.
First-Attempt-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger


(Just kidding with this picture :P)
All in all I guess 7 is better than 6, but of course, when you have been used to doing things in a certain way it can be difficult when you have to look at other/new places for every little thing you want to do.
I have had a lot of trouble and almost wrote post’s to ask for help, but I have eventually found the solution for the most of it, bit by bit. Now I guess it’s just a few major things I haven’t found out. I will came back to it (a special first step and penetration depth)

About the newel position on the first step, it might been wrong but it stands there for a reason.
Originally the cabin-owner (which also pay for both the cabin and the stair) wanted a special solution for the first step, something like this:

First-step-wishes-1.jpgImage Enlarger

First-step-wishes-2.jpgImage Enlarger
First-step-wishes-3.jpgImage Enlarger

I manage to draw that in SD6, but in SD7 i can’t figure out how to do it?
(This is an earlier version of the same stair from SD6:)
4.4-special-first-step-3D.jpgImage Enlarger

4.4-special-first-step.jpgImage Enlarger

But long story short about the newel position, someone convinced him that it might steel to much of the limited space in the hallway in the ground floor so we took it away.
But when I removed it I thought that it might be a good idea to let the newel be as long “back” as possible so he can get quicker up the stair when he came from the door marked “ID1” or bathroom.
He liked it that way so that’s the reason for the strange newel position 🙂

When it comes to the thickness of the stringboard…
Most of the stairs I have seen is 50 but I have seen some with 40 mm as well, I have also seen some with 25 (!) but that’s really not a good idea! Kind of soft stair 😛
For this stair I think I will stay with the 40mm because I have all the material ready in my workshop and I don’t have the time to wait for new materials to be made for me.

One more thing I haven’t figured out…
How can you set a general penetration depth in SD7?
I guess 15 or 20 mm penetration is enough, but I’m not sure what SD7 has chosen for me?
On the 3D-Wireframe it looks deeper than 20? Maybe 30?

Landing step:
Yes, my plan is that the last step shall more or less be a part of the floor. Just the riser and stepnose will be in the stringboard (I will customize the details in the stringboard around the top step in my CAM)
Btw, here I discover a problem. I had set the right length for Flight #2 to 900mm, but when I study it in 2D (thanks to the grid) I discover that it was 900 to the nose of the landing step, and in addition to that it was 69mm (19mm riser + 50 mm stepnose). So if it was not for the grid and my eagle eye (haha) I would have get myself some work with the chainsaw to carve out some space in the floor for the stepnose/riser on the mounting day 😛
I don’t manage to figure out why it was so but I just tricked it with setting the flight length to 831mm then the total length became 900mm as I want it to be 🙂
4.4-2D-SD7.jpgImage Enlarger

Here (on the picture below) I have tried to draw some more of the rooms around the stair room from my memory (the complete, original drawing is at my home). There you see it is some limited space and the traffic to the stair will be from 3 different directions. That’s the reason for the angel at the 2 first steps and the newel as far back as possible.
My customer is fortunately prepared for the stair to be steep, we just have to do the best out of the limited space available.
Remember, this drawing is from ground floor. First floor and basement is just open rooms without walls.
Stair-room-mm-4.2-m-skrå-trinn.pngImage Enlarger

Some question:
1.  When I set an angel of 10 degree at the 2 first step, the stringboard (and handrail) became kind of bumpy. Is it some easy way to smooth them out again?
2. How to set general Penetration depth
3. Is it possible to draw that special first step with the half circle in SD7 (It might be included in this stair anyway)
4. The nose of step nr3 has to be straight because I will make a simple version of the same stair for the basement where I just remove step 1 and 2 in my CAM. But for step number 4 to 9, would you have preferred them straight, or winded as SD7 suggests?
5. I don’t need to draw it but I’m just curios 🙂 Is it possible to draw a return handrail in SD7? I’t managed the first post of the return…
6. I have not decided about the newel jet, but I tried to move it around and SD7 don’t allowed me to move it more than I have done in my example file (40mm), is it a way around this limit?

Sorry for the late and messy post, English isn’t that easy for me and when I have just some short moments now and then it became even more difficult to write a good post :/
But it’s really important for me to have it all finish before Wednesday (travel home day) so I have to try even if I’m not happy with the result…

B.R
Vidf 🙂

May 22, 2018
9:33 pm
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf,

There is not much you can do to make the steps deeper. If you remove one your step height will go to 21.5 cm which is too high. The only thing you can do to enlarge the steps is increase the stepnose. But this will not change the tread width. You have a little more comfort going up but going down remains the same.

I changed the newel position on the first step as it was wrong. So check the steps when you increase the stepnose . You may need larger stringboards. 50mm is a standard and I do not advise to enlarge it too much.

Also you have no landingstep which means that the last step is your upper floor.

regards

Michel

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May 22, 2018
5:10 pm
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf

here you can download it 

https://wooddesigner.org/stairdesigner-download/

regards

Michel

May 22, 2018
2:27 pm
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michel melon said
Hi Vidf,

Question:
Will my steps be “deep” enough (because of the riser) for comfortable walking?
Should I use 20 or 40mm thick post instead of stringboard/handrails in the top left?
Do you think 20cm riser height is ok for this stair?
(Tread Width: 15.19, Stair Rule 55.19)

The stair is very steep and in such situation a riser is taking away some comfort as you cannot overpass the step when walking on it. So if you can do an open stair without risers comfort will be better but still remain steep in use.
Why using such a wide post and reducing the width of your stair ? According to the plan I see you stair ends on a door opening or Do I see it wrong ? I suppose you do not have any handrail return then.
20 cm riser is OK. It can vary between 18 and 21 cm. I would not recommend ever to go over 21 cm. In your situation you have no choice unless you can add length on the stair.
I added a model made with the new stairdesigner 7 which is much better than version 6 you are using. There you can see that you can use the complete width of the stairwell and make a 90° turn with a possibility of handrail return. You can take a look at the 3d model. If you download sd7, you can open the stairfile too.
Regards
Michel

vidf.jpgImage Enlarger

  

Thanks for a quick answer 🙂 I’m in a bit of a hurry now so it might be even more strange language than i use to have 😛

I tried to download SD7, but I could  not find any downloadbutton on the download-page?!? Only for making new membership. I will try a couple of times more, i guess I’m overlooking something 😛 It could have been a good thing if i could download it now from home with “free” internet, but maybee I could find som free web on vacation to.

The riser have to be there because he will have different temperatur in the basement and the first floor. Maybe it’s possible to make the steps deeper? Or do you think it will be ok as I have draw it for an average user? (I hope so)

I should have eksplained more aboute the drawing of the room, the drawing is from the first floor. In the second floor it’s just a big room without walls so yes, it will be return handrails 🙂 But “the bonus stair” from the basement will end up in the door you see in the drawing.

About the width of the stair.., it’s several small reasons for the stair to be 80 and the room 90, the best i can remember here an now is: 1.to save space in the small hallway at the bottom of the stair. 2. Because of the type of baluster the handrail have to be vertical to the stringboard and i guess it’s good to have some space between wall and handrail 🙂  It’s a couple of more good and not so good reasons to but I guess the two I mention is the main.

May 22, 2018
10:32 am
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michel melon
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Hi Vidf,

Question:
Will my steps be “deep” enough (because of the riser) for comfortable walking?
Should I use 20 or 40mm thick post instead of stringboard/handrails in the top left?
Do you think 20cm riser height is ok for this stair?
(Tread Width: 15.19, Stair Rule 55.19)

The stair is very steep and in such situation a riser is taking away some comfort as you cannot overpass the step when walking on it. So if you can do an open stair without risers comfort will be better but still remain steep in use.

Why using such a wide post and reducing the width of your stair ? According to the plan I see you stair ends on a door opening or Do I see it wrong ? I suppose you do not have any handrail return then.

20 cm riser is OK. It can vary between 18 and 21 cm. I would not recommend ever to go over 21 cm. In your situation you have no choice unless you can add length on the stair.

I added a model made with the new stairdesigner 7 which is much better than version 6 you are using. There you can see that you can use the complete width of the stairwell and make a 90° turn with a possibility of handrail return. You can take a look at the 3d model. If you download sd7, you can open the stairfile too.

Regards

Michel

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May 21, 2018
6:02 pm
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This is how the basement stair will be after some adjustment in the CAM
5.5-oversikt.jpgImage Enlarger

5.5.jpgImage Enlarger
5.5-gjennomsiktlig-1.jpgImage Enlarger

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May 21, 2018
5:56 pm
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I forgot to press the “start upload” button in the last post 😛
But here are the pictures.
Seems like my .sds file don’t want to uppload?

Stair room:
Stair-room-4.2-m-skrå-trinn.pngImage Enlarger


Overwiev stair:
4.5-overwiev-oversikt.jpgImage Enlarger

3D screenshots, stair:
4.5-forfra.jpgImage Enlarger
4.5-forfra-2.jpgImage Enlarger

4.5-detalj-nederst.jpgImage Enlarger

Special top post:
Special-top-post-4.5-.pngImage Enlarger

How the customer want the baluster to look like (I will make it in the CAM program)
Baluster-idea-Rekkverkseksempel-farge.pngImage Enlarger

May 21, 2018
5:44 pm
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Screenshots maine stair, and .sds file

May 21, 2018
5:33 pm
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Hello

Now I’m about to use the file service for the second time. Hope it will be as good as last time J

The project now is a new cabin that shall have a stair from first to second floor and a similar stair from first floor down to the basement.
The distance (floor-floor) from first too second is 280cm and from the basement to the first floor is 240, my plan is to use a riser height of 20cm so I can just remove the two bottom steps in my CAM and use the “same” stair for the basement.

The “stair room” have a width of 90cm but the stair shall only be 80cm so it will straighten out 10 cm after the turn in the top. Instead of making a microscopic stringboard and handrails I thought I could make a wider post and make a nice, tilted cut on top of it. And glue the post together with the first post to the railing around the hole.
The thickness of the material I use is 40mm(stringboard and steps) and 19mm(19 for riser and baluster).  My plan is to use 80mm posts so I can just glue it together from 40mm material. But for the top post that I just mentioned, I’m not sure if it should be 40 or 80mm thick? In my drawing it is 80

I have to go to Rhodes for a week tomorrow but when I come home I should really be ready to start cutting parts, my customer is a bit impatient now :S
I will bring my laptop with me so I will have the opportunity to make some smaller adjustment of the stair from the pool edge J

Question:
Will my steps be “deep” enough (because of the riser) for comfortable walking?
Should I use 20 or 40mm thick post instead of stringboard/handrails in the top left?
Do you think 20cm riser height is ok for this stair?
(Tread Width: 15.19, Stair Rule 55.19)

I will put some screenshots in a new post

B.R

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