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New stair project, possibly single stringer staircase
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Ness

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July 10, 2020 - 7:01 am
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Hi Stu,

Michel has transferred this post to me, I’m guessing he hopes I’ve had experience in outdoors stairs.

Unfortunately I have no experience in outdoor stairs except to say that wood is not a good option if continuously exposed to the elements.

I have always advised metal or cement / stone stairs if there is no cover for rain and sun.

Best regards,

Ness

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Stuart Lees

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June 25, 2020 - 5:41 pm
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Hi Michel

My project has been delayed by Covid. I hope to make the stair in the new year.

But I may have another project I’d like to ask you about: Have you made a stair for outdoors from a material that can be CNC cut?

Thanks

Stuart

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Stuart Lees

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April 13, 2020 - 8:42 pm
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Great! Thanks -Stu

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michel melon
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April 13, 2020 - 6:09 pm
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Hi Stuart 

you have to regenerate the drawing then it will be fine. Menu / view/regen

nanoCAD-5.jpgImage Enlarger

regards

Michel

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Stuart Lees

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April 12, 2020 - 5:34 pm
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Thanks. I have NanoCAD, and the files open fine. Looks like the curved section of my StairDesigner file has come out in straight sectors in the 2D DXF:

2020-04-12_1733Image Enlarger

-Stu

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michel melon
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April 11, 2020 - 8:59 pm
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Hi Stuart 

there is nothing wrong with the Dxf files. I do not know inkscape. You can download nanocad5 for free. 

https://wooddesigner.org/support/cad/

regards

Michel

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Stuart Lees

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April 11, 2020 - 4:52 pm
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Hi Michel

I’m trying to open the DXFs in Inkscape. Getting the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):

File “dxf_input.py”, line 530, in <module>
inkex.errormsg(_(‘%d ENTITIES of type POLYLINE encountered and ignored. Please try to convert to Release 13 format using QCad.’) % polylines)
NameError: name ‘_’ is not defined

I’m afraid it doesn’t mean much to me! I think they should open in a 2D program, shouldn’t they?

Thanks

Stu

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michel melon
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March 11, 2020 - 6:13 pm
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Hi Stuart,

Ok hopefully this is the correct one as this version was never uploaded before 

regards

Michel

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Stuart Lees

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March 11, 2020 - 5:38 pm
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This one please.

-Stu

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michel melon
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March 11, 2020 - 5:22 pm
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Hi Stuart 

Do you mean the last one I have uploaded ?  called ” Stair-r10-935B-V2″ 

Need to be sure of getting the correct one 

regards

Michel 

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Stuart Lees

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March 10, 2020 - 3:40 pm
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Hi Michel

I think the issue is that the technical drawings haven’t yet been completed, and I’m pressing ahead with designing stairs already. I’ll follow it up myself thanks.

Can I have my DXF from the last file uploaded please?

Regards

Stuart

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michel melon
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March 9, 2020 - 10:13 pm
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Hi Stuart,

It needs to be a strong connection. Can you let me know what kind of beam is going to be used? The technical data of it? In case this is not enough it needs to be changed.

regards

Michel

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Stuart Lees

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March 9, 2020 - 11:22 am
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Thanks Michel. Fantastic stairs in the video!

The house for my stair hasn’t yet been constructed. The architect tells me that the first floor structural beam isn’t designed to have bolt holes cut through it. Can I connect the stair to the beam some other way? Or will I need to get the beam re-designed?

Regards

Stu

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michel melon
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March 6, 2020 - 5:37 pm
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Hi Stu,

plywood would be possible. The building process is to make complete blocks at the exact step height and glue them together. So you have to plane them down and this is not clean to do with plywood. Also, I prefer the massive connection of actual wood because it is in fact stronger. plywood is a stack of multiple layers which makes it strong on itself as a plate. Solid wood is significantly stronger than plywood, especially in terms of stiffness.

For the handrail, the horizontal laminate technique is not the best way to produce. You can make vertical batons on the stair to use it as a mould and glued with traditional laminates.

handrail.jpgImage Enlarger

Here is a link to a video showing the horizontal laminate and traditional laminate for the handrail 

https://wooddesigner.org/makin…..-majestic/

regards

Michel

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Stuart Lees

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March 4, 2020 - 10:24 am
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Thanks Michel. Makes sense.

Is plywood a problem for the stringer?

Will the horizontal laminates technique be ok for the handrail?

-Stu

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michel melon
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March 4, 2020 - 5:38 am
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Hi Stuart 

This is what I would do. Set the riser at the front of the steps like all other steps to keep the same design. This is not reducing your tread width as this is measured from step nose to step nose. Visually it looks smaller because of the open riser design but your tread width remains the same. In fact if you move downstairs this step provides the same space as all other steps.

To answer some other questions in your earlier post. 

I would also set the steps to penetrate the newels 1 and 2 by 15mm. This increases, even more, the stability. Not on newel 5 as there a small bracket connection to the side is the best solution. A 3 axes CNC has no problem on processing pockets in newels.

For the bottom connection, you can provide the plate with threaded rods that are drilled through the base of your cut stringer and bolted down. This is done below the first step. On the top side, you can do the same as the bolts are hidden behind the riser but here I would add a steel flap welded on the plate on either side of the stringer to keep the stringer in place and transfer the torsion forces from the stringer to the plate.

regards

Michel 

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Stuart Lees

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March 3, 2020 - 10:15 am
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Hi

I’ve modified to make the top part of the stringer thicker. Is it enough?

Two versions (see jpg):

Version ‘b’ – full width riser

Version ‘c’ – thicker stringer intended for riser to be added either side of stringer.

Regards

Stu

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Stuart Lees

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March 2, 2020 - 1:55 pm
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…where I referred to the going of step 13 below, I really meant the overlap of step 13 and the landing.

-Stu

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Stuart Lees

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March 2, 2020 - 1:48 pm
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Thanks Michel. I’ve added comments to your reply here:

I would also make the newel base flush with the underside of the risers and use thicker riser for example 30mm. That would add more lateral surface so that you could add more connection screws below your dowel connection and eventually combine this with a penetration of the riser in the newel (15mm) and glue them together.

I’ve adjusted the base height of the newels to match the risers, and made the risers thicker. Looks better as well as stronger!

I’ve set the riser/newel penetration to 15mm.

Should I leave all the other link parameters on default? I’m uncertain how much of the newel posts and banisters can be cut by CNC, and which parts need traditional joinery. I haven’t made a stair before, so some advice on any joints that have to be cut by hand would be appreciated. 

Newel post 5 seems to be OK as it is facing a wall on its side if I am correct and there you can add a connection to the wall that will assure the lateral strength.

If possible, I prefer not to connect to the wall. I intend to leave a 60mm gap between the newel and the wall, but if necessary I will add a bracket. If I also add a metal plate beneath the step, how big does the plate need to be?

For the upper floor connection, I would add a metal plate on the back of the cutstringer in a T-shape. Creates rigidity of the cutstringer end side and the t-shape adds more strength to the torsion forces create from the stair design. The t-shape can be firmly connected to the floor joist. To hide the eventual view of this plate you could extend a full riser on the last step which indirectly would also participate in a better rigidity of the stair at that point.

I’ve added a new full riser, and allowed room for a 10mm thick, steel ‘T’. To keep the going the same for step 13 as it is for the open tread steps, I have to make the tread wider (to include the riser). This makes the central stringer end beneath step 13. Would it be best to cut the new riser in two, and add it either side of the stringer, or joint it around the stringer, making the stringer and the riser just 17.5mm thick each at the joint? (I haven’t worked out if it’s possible to draw either of those in StairDesigner.)

Also for the floor connection, I would at a metal plate with a bigger surface tighten into the concrete slap to have a very strong connection against the torsion forces. The floor base and top are your main stair connections for stability. I would not make any compromise on these.

The steel plates at the top and bottom of the stair can be bolted to the beam and the floor. How is it best to connect the plate to the stringer? Use the longest possible wood screws?

About the last 2 questions on the handrail and plywood, I will revert later.  

Regards

Stu

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michel melon
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February 29, 2020 - 8:59 am
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Hi Stu,

the newel is perfectly aligned. I exported the 2d plan in my cad program and saw the alignment is correct

About the newel posts. The connection on such stairs is not as strong as the known newel to stringer connections with a tenon. However, I suggest if possible for newel 1 and 2 to connect to the side of the step with 2 aligned dowels and a screw connection through the newel in the steps. I would also make the newel base flush with the underside of the risers and use thicker riser for example 30mm. That would add more lateral surface so that you could add more connection screws below your dowel connection and eventually combine this with a penetration of the riser in the newel (15mm) and glue them together.

Another possibility would be working with a metal base-plate below the newel base and connect with the underside of the steps but this is the least aesthetic version.

Newel post 5 seems to be OK as it is facing a wall on its side if I am correct and there you can add a connection to the wall that will assure the lateral strength.

About the banisters distance. The only control mode is the handrail parameters/ banister parameters. You will have to set it until you find the best result. You can set this individually on each handrail by selecting the handrail in the 3D view. This will allow you to set the parameters for that specific handrail as the result is not homogeneous in the overall of the stair.

For the upper floor connection, I would add a metal plate on the back of the cutstringer in a T-shape. Creates rigidity of the cutstringer end side and the t-shape adds more strength to the torsion forces create from the stair design. The t-shape can be firmly connected to the floor joist. To hide the eventual view of this plate you could extend a full riser on the last step which indirectly would also participate in a better rigidity of the stair at that point.

Also for the floor connection, I would at a metal plate with a bigger surface tighten into the concrete slap to have a very strong connection against the torsion forces. The floor base and top are your main stair connections for stability. I would not make any compromise on these.

For the wood of the threads, you can choose whatever you want as long as it is a hardwood type like beech, ash or mahogany. It depends on the style you want. I would never use softer wood types like pine to make steps.

About the last 2 questions on the handrail and plywood, I will revert later.

Regards

Michel

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