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Back to Back with Winders
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Ness

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September 9, 2020 - 11:15 am
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Hi,

Sorry that Michel couldn’t get back to sooner, but due to unforeseen circumstances he has been tied up on other things, so I’m replying to your last question for him.

Stair Designer is programmed in Paris France to suit the European way of calculating stairs. This means that the stairs are calculated from the general stair well dimensions and that all treads have the same going along the tread line.

The constraints used in the US as you described in your video are not dealt with by the program. It’s possible to create a stair with a minimum step collet by manually moving  step nosing but the program will maintain the constant “going” along the treat line. Winders will be calculated to spread over a certain number of steps which will automatically create a safe stair but not necessarily compliant to US regs. as you describe them.

We do have several professional US stair builders using the program but we are aware that this is not ideal for the US market. This is why we offer a free download for testing before you commit to buying the program.

Best regards,

Ness Tillson

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4urhome

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September 7, 2020 - 5:46 pm
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Today is September 7th and I am getting a bit uneasy about the software as well as the support I paid for. If your software can’t create a stairway with winders compliant with codes in the US (and possibly elsewhere), I have no problem with that. Just make sure your website provides that warning so people don’t waste their time or money on a product and/or service that isn’t workable in their country.

Attached is a video explaining winder codes in the US which are based on the International Building Code…

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4urhome

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September 2, 2020 - 2:13 pm
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Hello Michel,

Any word from the developers yet?

Thanks for your efforts

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michel melon
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August 27, 2020 - 8:52 am
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Hi Daryl,

I have also posted the question to the developers. As soon as I have an answer I will inform you. Due to the holiday period, it can take more time before I get a reply but I will follow up and inform you.

regards

Michel

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4urhome

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August 26, 2020 - 1:37 pm
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And to add to the confusion regarding terminology and code interpretation, the drawing I posted a couple of replies ago (found on a site making software for stair design) , calls for a minimum 6″ tread depth for winders… but the verbiage is clearly “width” on that diagram, yet the correct terminology would be depth, just like in tread depth. Also. they are showing a carpenter’s square perpendicular to the riser picking up a minimum 10″ tread depth. This would be correct if the code intent was to measure tread depth perpendicular to the riser on winders, but that isn’t the case. The code wants the tread depth to be measured at the walkline…

311.7.4.2 Tread depth. The minimum tread depth shall be 9 inches (254 mm). The tread depth shall be measured horizontally between the vertical planes of the foremost projection of adjacent treads and at a right angle to the tread’s leading edge. The greatest tread depth within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm). Consistently shaped winders at the walkline shall be allowed within the same flight of stairs as rectangular treads and do not have to be within 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) of the rectangular tread depth.

Winder treads shall have a minimum tread depth of 9 10 inches (254 mm) measured between the vertical planes of the foremost projection of adjacent treads at the intersections with the walkline. Winder treads shall have a minimum tread depth of 6 inches (152 mm) at any point within the clear width of the stair. Within any flight of stairs, the largest winder tread depth at the walkline shall not exceed the smallest winder tread by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm).

I haven’t done the math yet, but it would seem intuitive that the code code be achieved regarding the same tread depth at the walkline (3/8″ max deviation between largest and smallest winder) with 2, 3 or more winders dependent upon the arc length (pole diameter for a visual reference) they are wrapped around.

 

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4urhome

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August 25, 2020 - 10:12 pm
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So based on those two drawings and using a 9″ tread depth, can we create a stairway in your program that will have six symmetrical winders creating a 180 degree turn? There would be an approximately 20″ space between the lower and upper stairwells 2(6 + 6/square root of 2) = 20.49 I may have to live with that based on our code requirements of consistent tread depth (no more than a 3/8″ deviation) for all winder stairs at the walk line. So i must turn through each 90 degrees with the same number of steps as the next 90 degrees. In other words, the 180 degree wind must be made from mirrored 90 degree segments.

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4urhome

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August 25, 2020 - 9:51 pm
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Now I see the majority of my problem… I have a demo version of the program so I can’t see individual part dimensions, just flight dimensions.

More importantly, why do you have a 2-1/2″ nosing on the steps you created? I would think 1″ overhang is standard.

The steps you created would not work here in the US as they are not symmetrical. Our codes are based on the International Building Code so sooner or later your program will need to address this. Screen shots below show what I would call tread depth, you are calling tread width. Width should mean only one thing, the width of the stair. Though the picture shows 10″ tread depth, in the state I live in, the depth is 9″ minimum.

Capture1.JPGImage Enlarger

Capture2.JPGImage Enlarger

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michel melon
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August 25, 2020 - 9:08 pm
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Hi Daryl,

No problem, I understand that you need a quick answer and this is what we provide mostly. Current period can create some delays but we try to avoid them. 

The thread width in stairdesigner is what you can call the going ( distance from nose to nose ). The tread width and depth are set in the step dimensions.

To change the tread line just select a flight. It will colour dark when selected. On the right side, you have your property screen and there you can locate the tread line parameter which you can adapt.

regards

Michel

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4urhome

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August 25, 2020 - 8:57 pm
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Michel,

I am going to apologize for my impatience. I see that there are only a few of you providing service and your available hours are most likely limited. That being said, I appreciate what you have revised and I need to learn more about the program before saying this will or will not work. Big thing here in the US is following codes, and most all reputable stair builders would require a program that would create code compliant steps. But like you said, the program may just work fine if certain dimensions are tweaked. Once I get a better feel for the program, I will get back in touch with you.

Just for my education, you mention tread width… not being a stair builder, I would associate width with the width of the stair (36″) and use the word depth to describe the available footprint from the riser to the nosing (8″). but it appears that my terminology may not be what the experts use.

How did you set the walk line? If it is in one of the instructional videos on this site, then don’t bother answering that. It would be up to me to spend my time finding that for myself.

Thanks again.

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michel melon
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August 25, 2020 - 8:34 pm
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Hi Daryl,

I have made some changes to your stair. Set the walking line at 12 inches and the tread width becomes 8,16 inches. The 6 inches width of the step should be pretty close on that one. Stairdesigner is currently not designed with respect to US building codes but the stair can be worked on to achieve the needed results. The only way to get a better tread width is to add length to the flight or remove a step that will get you 8-inch riser height and 8.78 inches tread width. 

I see that you have not added a landing step yet. This also affects the tread width. 

Let me know your findings on this one 

regards

Michel 

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michel melon
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August 25, 2020 - 1:24 pm
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Hi,

Sorry for the late reaction. I will revert later today when I am back in the office 

regards

Michel

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4urhome

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August 24, 2020 - 2:31 pm
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Hello, I thought Premium Support was answered within 24 to 48hrs?

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4urhome

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August 20, 2020 - 5:49 pm
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Hello,

Downloaded the software and created the staircase… file attached. What is the best method to create a staircase like this that also complies with US building codes?

For example, the 6″ minimum width of any tread and the 9″ (or 10″) tread depth at the 12″ walk line with 36″ wide tread? Not sure I am a fan of curved winders so if we create all stairs to be perpendicular to the sidewalls, except for the winders, that would be appreciated. If you are confident that this staircase would be easier to traverse with a curved design, then we may as well go that route for safety. Engineers prefer straight lines, that’s my defense.

Would be nice to know how you do this in the software but if you just want to attach a file that I can load and review that would be fine also.

Full height walls will be around the perimeter, and in the interior of the wind, except for the side showing the two Newel posts. That side will have a wood railing with wood balusters and be framed underneath with lumber and drywall so the stringers are hidden. Risers to be closed. I would appreciate any design that shrinks the wall in the middle (interior of the wind) to the narrowest width geometrically possible (after code considerations). Handrail along interior wall

Once I review, I will order the templates and .dxf file.

Thanks for your help

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