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Advice needed
June 13, 2014
7:52 am
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mark nichols


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Terry. When funds permit, you should invest in a domino. We use them in our workshop for all cabinets and as Jimbouk says, you can index off the last hole.

For fast onsite cabinets we use dominos and kreg pockets on the invisible sides and can knock down cabinets for fast onsite assembly in minutes.

As Ness says, you have to have the work requirement for these as they are not cheap, but if you do a lot of cabinets they are invaluable.

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terry
June 12, 2014
7:00 pm
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Ness

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Thanks Jimbouk,

That sounds better than biscuits, than with the machine I have at least, have to be set out each biscuit individually.

June 12, 2014
6:45 pm
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jimbouk

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Ness no need to measure with domino, just index of one side of panel and each mortice can be indexed off the last.Smile

June 12, 2014
8:20 am
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Ness

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Hi Terry,

I’ve used pocket screws, biscuits, dominos and dowels, and found that they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

I’ve found that pocket screws are great if the pockets are hidden, but don’t like them when I have to plug the pockets. They are great for fixing front frames onto a cabinet from the outside, building a fixed frame that has one side hidden. 

Biscuits are good for quick assembly of boards but are no good for narrow parts like frames etc. as they are 60mm long and difficult to position laterally with precision. they are great for assembling edge to edge and at right angles. But not so good when joining divisions, frames, miters.

Dominos are like biscuits but being narrower can be used on frames etc. I haven’t tried the domino XL that looks very good for heavy frames. But not doing a lot of heavy framing I doubt if the hefty investment of over 1000€ will ever tempt me, especially as I have the machinery for traditional mortise and tenons and once set up this is very fast to process a lot of wood.

The thing I don’t like about biscuits and dominos is that you have to mark the position of each joint. I find this tedious and time consuming.

For most small cabinet jobs I use dowels and make a quick throw away jig.

For jobs that need on site assembly I use dowel and cams.

I  make a quick throw away cam jig that goes with the dowel jig.

I was going to make a video about this so if it interests you I’ll up it on my priority list.

My main job is stair building so I don’t make loads of cabinets but we do a lot of cabinets and paneling around stairs so my opinion may not be valid for everyone, so please feel free to criticise and disagree with me.

All the best,

Ness

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terry
June 11, 2014
8:42 pm
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terry

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Hi Ness

I did buy the joint genie and have used it a few times….in principal its a good piece of kit. I bought the the one designed for 12mm material which now I realise wasn’t a great idea…….but I was just starting out on cabinet work back then. I now mainly use 18/19mm material for carcasses and 15/16mm for drawers. The 12mm joint genie can be adapted using washers to fit on larger materials such as 18mm but I’ve found that with the washer setup its not 100 per cent accurate on the joints. Maybe something to do with the washers I bought.

The one I bought is also a short bar version which is just about ok to use on small drawers but whilst its cleverly indexes itself off of the bar for easy setup……I wouldn’t want to joint a full height carcase with it as that would be way too time consuming. For alignment on the edges maybe it could be useful backed up with screws where they won’t be seen.

Where I can (on smaller cabinet work and bookcases) I prefer to do most of the machining of parts, edgbanding and painting at my workshop and then install. On bigger jobs such as wardrobes and any work which is “up the stairs’ or has access that prohibits pre assembly I’m looking for a better solution than using pre cut divider jigs. Whilst these spacers are cut accurately sometimes Im wondering if a biscuit joiner or indeed the famous domino would make much difference and life easier.

Im not one for spending much money if i don’t have to and don’t need the ‘latest’ tool but anyones ideas are welcome.

BTW I recently bought the Kreg mini jig and that has been very useful in certain situations.

 

All the best

 

Terry

June 10, 2014
5:26 pm
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Ness

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Hello Terry,

The domino is a very neat tool but very expensive.

I see that you have tried the Joint genie and didn’t like it, can you tell me why?

I have only seen it demoed on youtube and thought it looked a good idea, it works a lot like the dowel jigs I make on the fly.

I only make cabinets and furniture occasionally so don’t want to invest heavily in a machine like the domino.

I have a biscuit jointer but often find dowels with a simple jig, faster and more versatile. I can use them now for everything panels, frames, stairs etc just like a domino.

I’m posting a few videos to show how I make a jig. Click here for the first in the series.

And here’s the video on how to make it.

Tell me what you think.

All the best,

Ness

June 4, 2014
6:47 pm
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terry

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Thanks for that kind offer Jim. I may well take you up on that at some point. Will give plenty of notice. Im down in brighton

so not too far to travel.

Thanks again

 

TerryLaugh

June 3, 2014
8:24 pm
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jimbouk

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Your welcome to come and use mine if your around south london Terry.

terry said
hi jim

Im not yet lucky enough to own the domino…..it is high up though on the list. I was interested in how useful it would be 

on this free standing stuff.

Thanks Im sorely tempted yet funds prevail at the moment 

 

Terry

June 2, 2014
9:54 pm
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terry

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hi jim

Im not yet lucky enough to own the domino…..it is high up though on the list. I was interested in how useful it would be 

on this free standing stuff.

Thanks Im sorely tempted yet funds prevail at the moment 

 

Terry

June 1, 2014
2:26 pm
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jimbouk

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Hi Terry,

 

You could easily just use glue and dominos and should hold very well.

terry said
Hi Jim

Yes I did think side deco end panels screwed through from the inside with cover caps. to hide the screws but that means taking them up to the top of the desk which may look a bit naff. This method works well on other stuff though but anything with a counter i’m not sure? I reckon I can get by on the joinery on the drawers with a mixture of pocket holes and carcass screws if I’m judicious but need to use this kreg jig a bit more to get comfortable with it.

Im thinking it needs to be either some form of dowel etc or pocket holes through the inside (hidden) with the pocket hole cover caps.

Just out of interest Jim……does the domino need to be backed up by screws etc or can you just cut the mortices and it all fits together?

 

Cheers Jim

TerrySmile

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May 28, 2014
8:59 pm
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terry

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Hi Jim

Yes I did think side deco end panels screwed through from the inside with cover caps. to hide the screws but that means taking them up to the top of the desk which may look a bit naff. This method works well on other stuff though but anything with a counter i’m not sure? I reckon I can get by on the joinery on the drawers with a mixture of pocket holes and carcass screws if I’m judicious but need to use this kreg jig a bit more to get comfortable with it.

Im thinking it needs to be either some form of dowel etc or pocket holes through the inside (hidden) with the pocket hole cover caps.

Just out of interest Jim……does the domino need to be backed up by screws etc or can you just cut the mortices and it all fits together?

 

Cheers Jim

TerrySmile

May 28, 2014
8:20 pm
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jimbouk

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terry said
Thanks Jim…….some good sound advice there.

Im capable of edgebanding…. done plenty on MDF its pretty easy, but I was going to just get the company who cuts it to edge it as they offer that service…. Cutrights in SW London. Whilst they are not particularly cheap I don’t think budget was a concern for this client. She is a professional writer and needs her space to be right. Therefore Im tempted not to get involved in the cutting/edging on this particular job but will heed the advice for the future, re the tracksaw and breakout.

Essentially is is a free-standing unit as it will go on a flat wall and I don’t intend on making it look fitted. There is a cheap looking 

MFI type desk there at the moment which it will replace,but will also be added to with file cabinets (drawers) and I don’t think it needs to be removed as this is the clients ‘holiday’ home where she does most of her writing. 

I’m looking at the ‘egger’ range of pre finished boards. Seem to be good quality. Just havent made up my mind about how to construct it all and keep it clean looking, without opening up potential confrontation with the client. I know egger do the cover caps

for their boards but a desk top with cover caps in the top would look a bit ikea. If i had a domino (which i dont) it would all be pretty easy I’m sure. Not a fan of dowel jigs (couldn’t get on with the joint genie too slow and tedious)

 

Anyway food for thought 

 

Terry

How about screwing from the underside only and maybe adding side facing panels to hide construction joins thats what i do if theres something like that i want to be able to remove?

 

Also you could try c workshop but they are in north london. Zylocleaf also do some nice exotic board finishes. Kronospan natural touch are pretty good as well.

 

Jim

May 28, 2014
7:48 pm
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terry

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Thanks Jim…….some good sound advice there.

Im capable of edgebanding…. done plenty on MDF its pretty easy, but I was going to just get the company who cuts it to edge it as they offer that service…. Cutrights in SW London. Whilst they are not particularly cheap I don’t think budget was a concern for this client. She is a professional writer and needs her space to be right. Therefore Im tempted not to get involved in the cutting/edging on this particular job but will heed the advice for the future, re the tracksaw and breakout.

Essentially is is a free-standing unit as it will go on a flat wall and I don’t intend on making it look fitted. There is a cheap looking 

MFI type desk there at the moment which it will replace,but will also be added to with file cabinets (drawers) and I don’t think it needs to be removed as this is the clients ‘holiday’ home where she does most of her writing. 

I’m looking at the ‘egger’ range of pre finished boards. Seem to be good quality. Just havent made up my mind about how to construct it all and keep it clean looking, without opening up potential confrontation with the client. I know egger do the cover caps

for their boards but a desk top with cover caps in the top would look a bit ikea. If i had a domino (which i dont) it would all be pretty easy I’m sure. Not a fan of dowel jigs (couldn’t get on with the joint genie too slow and tedious)

 

Anyway food for thought 

 

Terry

May 27, 2014
4:50 am
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jimbouk

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That sounds interesting Terry!

A few things re the cutting. I understand about getting stuff cut but here are a few tracksaw tips for future ref.

Make sure the blade has as many teeth as possible.

Make sure you have fuĺl sacrficial piece under the full length of the cut this will stop all backside breakout.

Tape the topside with masking tape on venneer or packing tape on laminate. Stopping topside breakout.

Set up your workbench to allow repeatable square cuts. Let me know if you want some more info on this.

How are you going to lip the edging? Let me know and i can suggest a few things.

Is it freestanding or ajoins a wall at some point?

Does it need to be removed? If not i would avoid the cam dowel as without propper equip they are a pain and dont produce the best joints.

How much leeway is there in the design, you can probably tweek it to make it easier to build?

Im happy to help as much as possible. Let me know…

Jimbo

May 26, 2014
9:46 pm
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terry

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Hi there

I was thinking that the furniture page on the forum is looking a bit lonely so I’ll have a crack at getting some help.

Most of the cabinet work I’ve done has been MDF painted…..alcove type stuff……pretty simple Screws/buttjointed etc.

Ive been asked to design and build a desk out of a either a veneered 18mm mdf or MFC (beech) and I’ve not got huge experience using these materials. The desk will incorporate a keyboard pullout and printer pullout and 2x file cabinet drawers and a pen drawer as well as space for leg room. The desk is going to be approx 600x1600mm

If anyone can offer any tips etc on knockdown fittings and how easy/difficult they are such as cam and dowels or rafix etc  i’d be grateful….Im obviously keen to either hide the joinery of be as discreet as possible but although I’ve used a kreg jig pocket holes etc I’m not sure it will wash here.

If i get the work, after planning the design on polyboard, I’m intending on getting the components cut by a cutting service that I’ve used before as Im not confident of cutting these materials on my track saw without breakout.

Any advice will be great

 

Terry

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